Posted by: cindybythesea | September 29, 2010

a splendid deception

     Miracle of the Sun, October 13, 1917

On a rainy morning in Cova da Iria near Fatima, Portugal tens of thousands of people gathered in the fields near the village in the expectation that they would be witness to a great miracle; a miracle which had been promised to three shepherd children by an apparition who the children believed to be the Blessed Virgin Mary.  According to the children, on three separate occasions, (July 13, Aug. 19 and Sept 13 of that same year), an apparition had appeared to them promising that a miracle would take place at high noon on October 13 which, would reveal the identity of the apparition and cause many to believe.

In spite of the rain, the people gathered, waiting and watching, peering upward toward the dark cloud filled skies, not knowing what to expect, but, expecting something.  As noon approached, expectation grew when the dark skies suddenly began to clear and the sun broke through – then it happened – but, what was it?  Dazzling in brilliance, dancing like fire, spinning wildly towards earth as if the sun itself had been unleashed from its fixed position and had come tumbling down towards them. People gasped, rubbed their eyes – what was it they were seeing?

“The sun, whirling wildly, seemed all at once to loosen itself from the firmament and, blood red, advance threateningly upon the earth as if to crush us with its huge and fiery weight.”  http://www.viarosa.com/VR/Fatima/MiracleOfSun.html#ENG

  • “As if like a bolt from the blue, the clouds were wrenched apart, and the sun at its zenith appeared in all its splendor. It began to revolve vertiginously on its axis, like the most magnificent firewheel that could be imagined, taking on all the colors of the rainbow and sending forth multicolored flashes of light, producing the most astounding effect. This sublime and incomparable spectacle, which was repeated three distinct times, lasted for about ten minutes. The immense multitude, overcome by the evidence of such a tremendous prodigy, threw themselves on their knees.” ― Dr. Formigão, a professor at the seminary at Santarém, and a priest.[20]

The descriptions of what people saw seemed to be as varied as the people themselves. Mass hallucination, dehydration and vertigo?  The sun spinning wildly towards earth as many thought?  Or, perhaps something more recognizable to us in these days of advanced technology; something we would term a UFO.   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_Miracle_of_Fatima

UFO’s have always gotten a lot of press.  Whether real or imagined they have captured our attention via movies, books, television programs and cartoons longer than most of us have memories.  A phenomenon which for one reason or another seems to be reaching a fever pitch right now.  Just this week, a retired Norad Officer made headlines by announcing that nuclear warheads had been disabled at Malmstrom AFB back in 1967 by the appearance of several UFO’s and that these same visitors traveling from the far reaches of our galaxy or beyond, concerned for the global welfare of our planet will make themselves known in a mass appearance on October 13.

I believe, as does LA Marzulli, that UFO’s will be part of the great deception spoken of in the Bible in the last days.  ET will not only be our friends, ET will be our saviorsThey of course, seeded our planet many millions ago and have watched from a distance as we have progressed to be a race of violent people, bent on self destruction.  Thankfully, they are here to step in at this critical juncture in history. And, so the story will go ….. better than the movie of the week!

 But, in reality they are but seducing spirits; demons masquerading as angels or agents of light.  When you look at the dates that link some of these events together, it is quite compelling. 

  The October 13, Fatima event of 1917 preceded the Balfour declaration of November 1917, which opened the way to the formation of the state of Israel.

 The disabling of the missiles at Malmstrom AFB occurred in March of 1967, just 3 months before the six-day war of June 1967http://xenophilius.wordpress.com/2010/08/23/minute-man-missiles-disabled-while-ufos-hovered-over-the-launch-facilities/

The Roswell incident in Roswell, New Mexico, the supposed site of a crashed UFO in July 1947, just months before the UN Partition Proposal of November 29, 1947 which created the state of Israel.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roswell_UFO_Incident

The world is being prepared for deception on a grand and massive scale. A splendid deception which has been centuries in the making; the enemy is as patient as he is cunning.  Will October 13, 2010 be signficant?  I don’t know, but, I think it well could be.  In light of the dates just mentioned and the peace proposal ready to push forward or grind to a stop – an event of this kind and magnitude could very well be the tool of transformation that someone or something is just waiting to be handed.

“For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie”  2 Thessalonians 2:11

“Pray for the peace of Jerusalem, they shall prosper who love thee”  Psalm 122:6   Waiting and watching with YOU for the soon return of Jesus!   Cindy

 

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Responses

  1. So just to be clear, are you suggesting that the miracle of Fatima was not of Divine origin, and was a UFO or something similar?

    • Hi Greg, Thanks for writing! I don’t think anyone knows for sure what was witnessed at Fatima. Could it have been a UFO – I think it is certainly within the realm of possibility. I would be suspect of any miracle or supernatural event that does not point to the work and redemption of Jesus Christ and give him the glory. As far as I know, from the accounts that I have read the “miracle” of Fatima does neither. Blessings brother, I appreciate your question. Cindy

      • Hi Cindy –

        Well I guess I would have to differ with you – I don’t think there is any doubt that Fatima points towards Jesus Christ. But no worries – since we both agree that’s what matters.

        I was just surprised. As a Catholic, I hadn’t really considered how Fatima was viewed by other denominations, so it was interesting to find out.

        Also, although I don’t believe in the rapture, it has been absolutely fascinating reading your blog, UltraGuy’s blog, and others. Just in the sense to see how everything ties together and how amazing and infinite is this world God has created. So thanks for all your contributions.

        -Greg

      • Hi Greg, I really appreciate the kind spirit of your response. Thank you for sharing your thoughts. Blessings in Yeshua! Cindy

      • Hi. Cindy I’ve only just found your website and i’m still going over alot of your articles. Really enjoying it so far. Ironicly enough after praying my girlfriend had a dream where a child was singing. “My mind blowing cindy!!” And as silly as this may sound she saw it as a message from God. And due to her love of music she felt he put it into a song for her so she could remember it. She woke up and googled the lyrics and we found your site. The whale part specificly!. Just wanted to let you know that little story :). Also I was just wondering what is your opinion on obama?

      • Hi Liam, Thanks for writing! What an interesting story, I’m glad you stopped by. It really made me smile. Your question about President Obama; – in the Bible we are admonished to pray for those God has placed in leadership over us. He states he is a Christian, (and only God knows the heart) – but, his policies speak otherwise. The pressure he and his administration are placing on Israel for dividing the land is diametrically opposed to the will of God, as are his policies on abortion and gay marriage. I pray that God will open his eyes so that he might be a leader who leads in righteousness, the course as it stands now is headed for judgment. Blessings! Cindy

  2. Great insights Cindy! I am also convinced that there is a great UFO deception coming. I think it will eventually play a large part in the “great falling away” which will be after the antichrist arises and will precede the rapture. “Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. ” 2 Thes 2:3,4

    I believe Jesus referred to this in Mt. “For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect”

  3. Cindy, whether the great deception falls on October 13 or another date in the future, my prayer is that we will all be spirtually ready to preach the truth in our sphere of influence. You have this blog which is a good method for getting the truth out. I have over 500 Facebook friends and I send many messages out on internet news sights. Along with the coming deception, I believe we may witness the greatest revival in history. It is exciting to say the least, to be part of what is coming. Keep looking up!

  4. Very exciting times we are living in. Oct. 13, 1917? I had forgotten the date. I really don’t believe in coincidence. We may be wrong but I’m feeling a stirring in my soul that says something big is about to happen. I’ve had this feeling for some time now about Oct. this year. Looking up!!!

  5. Dear Cindy,
    Speaking about deception, the world is gearing up and ready to explain away a Rapture!

    http://www.siouxcityjournal.com/app/blogs/news/?p=1538
    Afternoon Delight: UN appoints Alien First Contact Coordinator
    By admins | September 28, 2010 – 11:13 am

    No, this is not an online remake of War of the Worlds. The United Nations is preparing for alien contact. One of the preparations is the recent appointment of Malaysian Astrophysicist, Mazlan Othman, as the Alien First Contact Coordinator

    • Hi Suzy, Excellent point! The perfect explanation for the disappearance of millions of people. It certainly seems like the world is gearing up in a big way for alien contact. This will shake the world to its core – undermining all previous “religious and philosophical” thought – My heart breaks for those unsuspecting souls upon whom this is being foisted. Cindy

  6. Great article. If you use Noah’s calendar, October 13 always falls on Marchevan 17 as it starts when the Sun enters Aries. Marchevan [Persian ?] or Dios [Macedonian used by Josephus] is Noah’s second month. It begins, of course, the evening of the 12th. Noah had 13 months of 28 days each of 364 days for the year. This way the feasts always fell on the exact same day every year. He said it would bring a curse if done otherwise. Moses said almost the same thing.
    Jeanne

  7. It’s also curious as to why at this point in time now we have the announcement of a planet just discovered that could possibly be habitable. Possible scenario being space ships could take us off this planet if it really gets bad on Earth.
    http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/earth-like-exoplanet-possibly-habitable-100929.html

    • Very interesting point Mrs. M and one I had not thought of yet. One of these days and soon, all of these loose threads – that keep appearing in the news – will tie together. Reminds me of the film “Knowing” where the children are removed from planet earth on October 19 to be transported to a new planetary home. We need to keep our eye on this one – something is brewing for sure. Blessings! Cindy

  8. Fatima IS satanic. The Bible Code –
    Exodus2006.com states so. There are
    many other startling words of truth
    on that site. Now powers to be are
    trying to shut off that web site because
    so many statements of truth!@! Most of
    their attempts to shut down the site,
    however, can be overrun by continuing
    to move forward. Check out 9/11 on their
    front page. If not already convinced,
    the info at that location should convince
    you! Read the Bible Codes that deal
    with 9/11!

    Fatima was the Queen of Heaven = SHIVA.
    SHIVA is the statute being sold in Target/
    Pier 1/etc. stores! Shiva = the “Queen
    of Heaven” spoken about in the Bible.
    The one they “discovered” at the end of
    the movie Da Vinci Code. Check out
    Kundalini/Shiva in your book stores
    (the foreign god the Antichrist will use
    to take over the world). Fatima was
    one of the first known events. Kundalini is spreading “like fire” through charismatic
    churches. Read the manifestations of
    SHIVA/Kundalini in their own books – they
    match the manifestations now in our
    churches! Churches flowing in “the river”
    – falling gold dust – falling feathers = = =
    SHIVA folks! Deception at its best. Wake
    up – it is dragging you straight into hell.
    Repent now!

    • You must be a protestant. The Fatima is verified by the Holy Catholic church. Also in Revelation 12:1 the QUEEN of heaven is crowned and well described as our Blessed virgin Mother Mary,

      • Hi IM4God, What I am, since you asked is a Bible believing Christian. According to 2 Timothy 3:16 – “All Scripture is God breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness so that the man of God man may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.” Only the Bible is authoratative in this respect. I think if you study it out, you will see that the woman in Revelation 12 is Israel and the man child she gives birth to, the Messiah. Thank you for writing, Cindy

  9. I am sorry my post sounded so harsh. I am
    so very sad that my brothers/sisters in Christ
    are not “contending for truth.” If “truth” was
    their very top priority, if they were “contending” for it, if they were repenting daily and living a life of “truth” they would find it. It would possibly
    mean having to leave friends and family members behind – sisters/brothers – mothers/
    fathers – grandchildren – everything in your life that you hold dear – you would find it. He offers it freely to those that will “contend” for it. The road has gotten narrower and narrower – tougher and tougher – steeper and steeper. There IS A PRICE TO PAY for truth. Especially in a world full of
    deception.

    The “gate” is narrow. The Lord said not many will find it. Those taking the “higher road” are being refined like silver. The dross is being “burned” away – and quite frankly – it hurts. Are you
    hurting – are you broken? If not, why not?

    If you are running after miracles – chasing after signs and wonders – you will find them. Shiva may heal (for a time) – but transfers demons with the process! Miracles abound. And there’s so many more fantastic (false) miracles coming. Satan is a fake. That’s the reason Revelation calls it the Great Deception.

    Matthew 13:13 [Jesus said] “Though seeing,
    they do not see; though hearing, they do not hear or understand.

    Matthew 13:14 In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah: You will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.

    15: For this people’s heart has become calloused; they hardly hear with their ears, and they have closed their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes; hear with their ears, understand with their hearts and turn, and I would heal them.

    There are whole religious denominations chasing after Shiva. Check out the symbols of your
    church – symbols on the priests/pastors robes – the symbols speak for themselves. You will not be held harmless for failing to seek truth. In the end it will cost you your very soul.

    Contend for truth – “chase after it with every ounce of energy you have.” Do you care? Your very soul is at stake. The “end” of this age is
    almost upon us and the clock is ticking down the minutes.

    I love you in the Lord. Please forgive me if I have come across harsh. My hope is that
    someone reading this will wake up – CONTEND FOR THE TRUTH- REPENT – and be ready for the Lord.

  10. Jeane, I agree with you. If people would research the connection between Fatima and the Roman Catholic Church with Mohammad and Islam, they will discover much. As far as those who still cling to Catholicism, they have nobody to blame but themselves given the voluminous amount of information online about this pagan, pseudo-Christian religion.

  11. Scriptures referring to the “Queen of Heaven”:

    Jer 7:18, Jer 44:17, Jer 44:18, Jer 44:19, Jer 44:25

    “Queen” [of Heaven]: Strongs Concordance #4446:

    An idol of the Ammonites.

    Queen of Heaven to which the women of Israel paid honors – the moon – Astarte – the planet Venus.

    We burn incense to the Queen of Heaven:

    http://www.exodus2006.com/fab/mary-queen.htm

    http://www.exodus2006.com/mary.htm

    Europa = Queen of Heaven:

    http://exodus2006.com/fab/europa.htm

    Teaching False:

    http://exodus2006.com/Mayra/Mariam.htm

    Fatima:

    1.) Fatima
    2.) Profane the name of my God
    3.) Satan” “Devilish Marie” «Satan » « Satan
    4.) Fallen from the sky
    5.) “Satan” “Satan”

  12. Fatima Bible Code (left off above) is:

    http://www.exodus2006.com/fab/Fatima.htm

    This is my last post on this subject (I promise):

    I recognize that I have opened a firestorm and that there may be many that will come unglued upon reading this.

    The woman spoken of in Rev 12:1 is the TRUE church: Those that “have salvation.” Those that have asked Jesus to forgive them of their sins – repented of their sins – and turned away from their past life. They follow Him and are in His Word and they pray and seek His face. They are those that SEEK truth with everything in them. Being a Christian is not a religion – but a relationship with our Savior, Jesus. He is real, alive, and ever present. I am not Catholic – I am not Baptist – I am not Pentecostal – I am not, not, not. I am a Christian – I seek Him and read His word for truth. I have used every tool available to me to search for truth. When He reveals truth and I need to change my stand on what I thought was truth – I move over into the correct lane. He is forever revealing truth to those “that contend for it.” And I am human and the Lord corrects me (often) and I repent (often!).

    This verse in Rev 12:1 is a reference to the church (woman) and the Zodiak – the placement of the stars that many are watching for, for the (soon) return of Jesus: a signal for the timing of
    His return.

    Mary was not sinless. The only human ever on earth to be sinless was Jesus Christ. I love Mary because of her willingness to allow God to use her in the most spectacular way. However, Mary is not God. And to worship her is to worship an idol made by man. She performed no miracles while here on earth, she did not rise from the grave with an incorruptible body, she was not found anywhere in the foretelling of the coming of Jesus
    by the prophets in the Old Testament. She was not the sacrifice for our sins. Jesus is the only door to salvation. Jesus said, “No one comes to the father, except by me.”

    Phl 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of [things] in heaven, and [things] in earth, and [things] under the earth;

    In the name of Jesus people are healed.

    In the name of Jesus we as Christians can take authority over evil.

    In the name of Jesus we have salvation.

    In the name of Jesus people’s lives are changed.

    Go to Blueletterbible.org and search for “the name of Jesus” and look at the Bible verses that
    come up.

    I do not want to offend anyone. If you want truth, you must ask the Holy Spirit (who IS truth) to lead you to all truth – and then “contend for it.”
    (Go after it with all your heart.) Don’t let any man tell you what you should believe – search it out for yourself. (Blueletterbible.org is a great tool to pull up verses quickly that deal with a particular subject. Strongs is a click away. I have been shocked as to what I have learned through this tool.)

    There is NO OTHER NAME under heaven whereby men can be saved.

  13. I am breaking my promise – I’m sorry.

    Great article posted at:

    http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/sep2010/mikec930.htm

    regarding Fatima and Shiva connections.

  14. Sigh. Well, I am a member of the Church Christ established here on earth-the Holy Roman Catholic Church.

    As far as the name Fatima, that is the name of the villiage in Portugal where the Church affirmed the Mother of Christ appeared to warn humanity to repent. She not only showed the children a terrifying vision of hell but also warned the world to stop offending God because He was already ‘very much offended.’ Does that sound like words from satan??

    She also warned of a worse war if man didn’t repent and turn to God. The mysterious aurora borealis of 1938 was another sign in the sky which immediately preceeded WWII.

    I will agree that UFOs could be a coming deception. However, I think the secular, worldly people will probably be in danger of getting entangled in such error.

    The witness accounts of the Miracle of the Sun (the sun is what they saw come down from the sky), the physical threats (even death) to the children by local leaders in Fatima are further proof of this apparition’s authenticity. Most of all though, I know the humble Mother of God is not content to stay seated as a biblical Queen at the right hand of her Son. She is trying to warn us, as any caring mother would. She is perfect though, due to the foreseen merits of Christ’s sacrifice on the cross. Born without the stain of original sin, her love for us is perfect also. She’ll never give up trying to bring more people to Her Son.

    Praying, as Jesus Christ prayed, that we all may be one in His truth some day…
    Amen.

    • Hi Maureen,
      Thanks for writing. I appreciate the kind and respectful tone of your comment. You have made a number of points though that in all gentleness and love I would ask you to examine in the light of scripture. As we study the Bible, it’s important that we contend for the truth of the faith as outlined not by one denomination or another but, by the Bible itself. The Bible is the only authoratative word of God; we have a responsibility as believers to know what is taught in the Bible, and if those in authority over us, whether they be Pastor’s, Bishops, Priests or elders err from the truth of scripture, we have a responsibility to call them on it. In the Bible, it is Jesus who sits at the right hand of the Father. I’ve been studying the Bible for over 40 years and I have never come across a verse that speaks of his mother Mary sitting at his right hand. Also, all humans (including Mary) were born in to original sin. Mary was a wonderful young Jewish woman that God chose for a specific purpose – but, she needed salvation through her son the same as you and I do.
      You ended your comment praying that we might all be one in his truth some day; the truth is found in the Bible, no where else. May God bless you as you study out his word. Cindy

      • if i may, Luke 11:27-28 addresses this tendency to worship someone other than God, and how Jesus responded:
        ” 27While Jesus was saying these things, one of the women in the crowd raised her voice and said to Him, “Blessed is the womb that bore You and the breasts at which You nursed.”

        28But He said, “On the contrary, blessed are those who hear the word of God and observe it.”

        nothing against Mary, she was an observant Jewish girl who was obedient to the Lord (and a brave one too, especially if you consider what out of wedlock pregnancy meant back then!), but Jesus is the only One worthy of our worship, and the only One through which we are saved (Mary had to be saved as well).

        Love your blog Cindy, been reading for a while. You have a great heart for the Lord, sister 🙂

        Maranatha!

      • Thank you for writing, your encouragement is greatly appreciated! Mary (Miriam) in Hebrew was indeed a very courageous young woman, as a betrothal in those days was as serious as the marriage contract and a violation like pregnancy out of wedlock a serious offense under the law. By God’s grace Joseph believed her and trusted God – a act of faith which required a tremendous amount of courage as well.

  15. Below, I quoted the Scriptural evidence for the Blessed Mother having a place at the right hand of Christ. This not only relies on Scripture but also upon tradition which the Church relies on heavily. That is why we continue to represent His eternal Sacrifice at every Holy Mass, as He asked.

    III Kings 2: 19-20 –
    ‘Then Bethsabee came to king Solomon, to speak to him for Adonias: and the king arose to meet her, and bowed to her, and sat down upon his throne: and a throne was set for the king’s mother, and she sat on his right hand. And she said to him: I desire one small petition of thee, do not put me to confusion. And the king said to her: My mother, ask: for I must not turn away thy face.’

    It is very true that Jesus cannot refuse His Mother. Awesome stuff.

    I think of it as a family portrait. The Father with the Holy Spirit hovering above, Jesus on the right hand of the Father and the Blessed Mother on the right hand of Jesus Christ.

    With that, I should probably end my comments. Not because I can’t back up my belief with Scriptural quotes but because most of us Catholics are a bit tired of being dragged through the streets daily by the secular media, the entertainment industry, culture of death politicians and all who hate the Church and her stand against immorality in the world today. IMHO, we truly are the last bastion for truth no matter how people try to smear us. Actually, I believe that is WHY the secular, moral relativists relentlessly try to smear us! They want to rid society of any organized, visible, vocal conscience.

    Christ’s peace to all of you.

  16. “As far as those who still cling to Catholicism, they have nobody to blame but themselves given the voluminous amount of information online about this pagan, pseudo-Christian religion.”

    Wow.

    I guess I would question the theology of any Christian who discusses Catholicism in this manner. I would also question any Catholic who discusses other Christians in this manner. It would be a sure sign in either case that they have left the path.

    There is a wealth of information out there. There is also a wealth of misinformation out there.

    But you will know by the fruits…

    May we continue the fruitful discussion, that has begun on this blog post, about our disagreements to work together to discover the truth.

    And let us pray together that ALL may be saved.

  17. Greg:

    May we continue the fruitful discussion – yes,
    let’s!

    Revelation states that Jesus is sitting on the right hand of the Father. I have found no scriptures that state that his mother – who lived a life in sin like all men/women here on earth – has that status of God. She like all humans had to repent of the sin in her life because nowhere do the
    scriptures state that she was sinless. The Bible Code states she was not sinless. When the disciples requested to sit next to Jesus in heaven, Jesus rebuked them.

    Maureen states:

    Jesus on the right hand of the Father and the blessed Mother on the right hand of Jesus Christ.

    Where is the scripture that supports your thinking on this?

    Where are all the scriptures that support that Mary is God – that Mary paid the price on the cross for our sins – that there is a second “gate/door” for us to go through to be saved other than Jesus?

    The hardest thing I have had to contend with in my own life is not seeing the log in my own eyes. My own deception has been the hardest to see. It is easy to see someone else’s wrong thinking, but very hard to see our own.

    Maureen states she could quote the scriptures. Please do, Maureen. Let’s all contend together
    for truth.

    But let’s also take those scriptures and check the meanings of those words that we think support our views against a Concordance. Perhaps
    Bluebluebible.org. A wonderful tool. One we
    all can look at together.

    I have found so many times on Christian forums that the “speaker” is not at all who they say they are – but a faction of the enemy trying to keep us running in circles, but never finding truth.

    After placing the above post about what being a Christian truly means, my computer was “hit” by a virus – wham – everything went black. They tried hard to take my access to the web down!

    The enemy hates truth, because sometimes people then “see with their eyes, and understand with their hearts” that the only “door/gate” to salvation is Jesus.

  18. Hi Jeane –

    Well I’m certainly willing to have a discussion – knowing full well that we will disagree – but I’ll proceed with caution based on the following quote from you above:

    “Fatima IS satanic. The Bible Code –
    Exodus2006.com states so.”

    Now I find that problematic (in part because it is stated so strongly) because to me you are willing to recognize the authority of this website to make such claims, and at the same time do not recognize the authority of the Catholic Church to make opposite claims – despite the fact that Jesus gave the Peter, the first Pope, the keys to the Church.

    I realize you believe the person at this website has done their research, but if you start digging, you will find there is incredible amounts of scholarly research done within the Church as well.

    Quite honestly this is one thing that confuses Catholics regarding Protestants. You can easily find multiple interpretations of any bible verse. How do you reconcile two different opinions when both people know they have the correct interpretation?

    As for quoting scriptures – you will find that yes I am one of those Catholics who cannot compete with Protestants on quoting scripture. And yes that is a knock on Catholics. Hopefully Maureen can provide you those verses. I would be more than happy to look, if I find the time to do so.

    Also you mentioned that you think someone is arguing that Mary has the status of God. Let me assure you, it is certainly not the teaching of the Catholic Church that Mary has a status equal to God. Yes we give her a special place, but by no means do believe she is equal to God.

    You also mention that there is no bible verse stating she is without sin. Is there a verse that states she has sinned?

    =========================

    Now of course we are going to disagree. But our goal here is clarity, and truth, and the only way to get there is to ask these sorts of questions.

    May God bless you on your faith journey.

    -Greg

  19. Greg – thank you for your response. I
    see sincerity in your answer.

    I gave the wrong website address for
    the Bible versions with concordance – it
    should have been blueletterbible.org/index.cfm.
    Not all the versions have the “Strongs”
    numbers. The site is so wonderful. You
    can actually click on the concordance
    at the same time you are reviewing and
    comparing scriptures. WOW – so much
    has been opened to me. We are really
    living in times that so many tools are
    available to us.

    Strongs concordance is a book that has
    checked the words (in English) against the
    Hebrew/Greek words originally written.

    I cannot begin to tell you the times that this
    resource has brought me truth. The Holy
    Spirit has had me up at 3:00 AM on many nights
    on this site.

    If you would check out the scriptures I have listed above at this site it “brings” home who the “Queen of Heaven” truly is. Mary is/was
    wonderful. The “Queen of Heaven” is NOT
    Mary.

    I have a few other sites I will again try to find
    that will be enlightening.

  20. Jeane –

    Thanks for your response. I have no doubt the blueletterbible is a great site. I am sure there is much truth there. But I don’t believe that it has the whole truth.

    Although I believe there is much to be said for reading, discussing and having a difference of opinion – I can’t escape the idea that for certain things there has to be a final earthly authority.

    For example – Catholics disagree with other denominations on whether the Eucharist is really the body of Christ. Both sides can adamantly state what they think the Scripture means – but in the end only one can be right.

    That being said, being right doesn’t mean we will be saved, and being wrong doesn’t mean we won’t be saved. There’s more to it than that.

    And regarding whether or not Mary is the “Queen of Heaven”, you will hopefully understand that I would first look to see what the Church says on that. (not to blindly follow everything the Church says – for that is not good either). I would be curious to understand better why some find it problematic to view Mary as sinless or as the Queen of Heaven. It seems understandable for the person who gave birth to Christ to be conceived without sin and to have a special place in Heaven.

    -Greg

  21. I went to the above Web Site and checked out
    Maureen’s referenced scripture.

    There is no III Kings – so I checked out
    both I Kings 2:19-20 AND II Kings 2:19-20.

    II Kings 2:19:

    Then the men of the city said to Elisha, “Please notice, the situation of this city is pleasant, as my lord sees; but the water is bad, and the ground barren.”

    II Kings 2:20

    And he said, “Bring me a new bowl, and put salt in it.” So they brought it to him.

    NOT what you have quoted Maureen. Here is
    First Kings (1st):

    I Kings 2:19

    Bathsheba therefore went to King Solomon, to speak to him for Adonijah. And the king rose up to meet her and bowed down to her, and sat down on his throne and had a throne set for the king’s mother; so she sat at his right hand.

    I Kings 2:20

    Then she said, “I desire one small petition of you; do not refuse me.” And the king said to her, “Ask it, my mother, for I will not refuse you.”

    I Kings 2:21 –

    So she said, “Let Abishag the Shunammite be given to Adonijah your brother as wife.”

    This is NOTHING close to what you have quoted.
    Bathsheeba was Solomon’s mother – not Mary –
    not the Queen of Heaven!@! She did not ask
    to sit on his right hand – Solomon placed her
    there. At that time and place Solomon put
    his own physical mother on his right side.
    Bathsheeba certainly doesn’t represent “sinless on earth” – because Solomon was conceived out of
    wedlock – while Bathsheeba she was married to another man!

    You stated “BethsaBEE” – interesting. Not
    Bathsheeba. The web site I gave you is wonderful. Check it out! Bee’s are an
    interesting “symbol.” They represent
    something other than what you have been
    led to believe.

    Those that get through the narrow gate
    have to contend for truth. Don’t let any
    man or church or congregation tell you
    what truth is. Check it out for yourself.
    You MUST get into the Word. Only “few”
    get through the gate.

  22. Here is the Bible I was quoting from with the Scripture mentioned –
    http://www.drbo.org/chapter/11001.htm
    The Douay Rheims version, as translated by Saint Jerome from Hebrew and Greek. Apparently, all Bibles don’t necessarily include all books.

    That being said, I do enjoy the BlueLetterBible site occasionally. It is interesting.

    As far as Catholics not knowing Scripture, I don’t agree. Almost the entire Mass quotes Scripture and we have at least one Old Testament reading and 2 New Testament readings at most Masses.
    We also have an A,B, and C cycle which covers most of the Bible in a 3 year period (if you went to daily Mass). Some Catholics may not be listening, but the Scripture is read and often!

    Again, I was speaking in terms of Hebrew tradition here – Bathsheeba (the oft used english version of her name) or Bethsabee being given a throne next to her Son. A Queen Mother of sorts…

    Jeane, as far as that Scripture referring to the queen of heaven, I think I remember seeing a footnote in my Bible which said it was an idol of sorts from back then. Probably a greek (pagan) deity like that Artemis character many worshiped.

    We Catholics believe Mary is the true Queen of Heaven (different title or reference, of course)

    Surely, we all know Who is at the right hand of the Father. Again, I’m speaking about who sits on the right hand of Jesus Christ.

    Absolutely, we Catholics honor Mary. We don’t worship her. That would be idolatry. We do think of her as our Spiritual Mother – the very first disciple who is the best example of a faithful follower of Jesus Christ.

    Said I wouldn’t post again…sorry to break my word!

  23. I’m sad. A Bible that appear so very
    distorted.

    This was the verse that you chose to
    support the “Queen of Heaven” stand.
    You agree that it was Bathsheeba.
    You appear to read your version of
    the Bible.

    The baby that was born out of wedlock did
    not live as punishment. Solomon was the son of both Bathsheeba and David. However, the sin
    of David and Bathsheeba was a severe affront
    against David. Because he sincerely repented
    and did not try to hide such a gross sin, God
    forgave him.

    Don’t think this is a good example to
    convince someone that the Queen of Heaven
    will be sitting on the right hand of Jesus in
    heaven.

    How can we debate, when your Bible is
    so very different. Interesting!

    I will check your version out on the Web.

    Glad you use that site. It has been so very
    helpful to me.

    Did you check out the verses I listed that
    directly point to the Queen of Heaven.
    The above verses and the meanings came
    directly off that site.

  24. Thanks Maureen for correcting me.

    Yes there are many Catholics who know there Bible very well.

    And it goes beyond just the scripture read at every daily Mass (I love daily Mass!). There are many documents produced by the Vatican that are based on Scripture. JP II and Benedict have written many books and given many homilies where they quote Scripture and expand on it.

    Also, there are many great writers that were former Protestants (e.g. Scott Hahn, Jeff Cavins, Mark Shea) who converted to Catholicism because of their intense study of scripture.

    But unfortunately there also are many, like me, who were not taught scripture as well at school or at home – so for me the stereotype that Protestants know their Bible better has some truth to it.

    But thanks for clarifying that.

  25. In the father’s eyes there will be no excuse for not reading the Word – not knowing truth. Especially in the day that we live where so much truth is available – especially on the Web.

    I have been greatly misled by man. I sat on the fence and was so close to being drug into the abyss by the “vain imaginations” of men.

    All men (and women) have sinned, except
    Jesus who was the perfect lamb and paid for our sins with His life on the cross. The Bible says:

    I Kings 8:46 – … there is NO ONE who does not sin …

    Many many verses that state there is NO ONE
    who does not sin that has been born on this earth except Jesus.

    Not you, not me, not priests, the pope, the bishops, the pastors, NO ONE.

    You have let men mislead you – you fail to take the reins into your own hands and you fail to “contend” for truth.

    So many different versions of the Bible – so
    easy to access. So many web sites that
    are posting truth. Many different web sites
    that show the occult in the symbols of your
    church as well as other churches.

    You don’t care enough to “contend” for the
    truth.

    In the end we are each accountable to God
    for what WE do – what WE think – and whether
    or not WE turn from sin and repent.

    In the end – who is the loser?

    You.

    And your loss is a whopper – forever and ever
    and ever and ever in the abyss!

    Isn’t it worth every ounce of energy in you
    to search – ON YOUR OWN for truth. Must you
    lead others into the abyss with you?

    My response sounds so harsh. But in reality
    it is LOVE. The love our pastors refuse to
    speak from the pulpit. You MUST WAKE UP
    NOW – Please please wake up.

    I love you – I LOVE YOU. Will you not love
    yourself enough to “contend” for truth?

    There is a book I used to give out on the
    streets – airports – restrooms – drunks –
    any place where people “sat” and had time
    to think and read. It is called “Return from
    Tomorrow.” It is an old book (still in
    print.) The paperbacks cost about $5.00 a
    piece – probably more on today’s market.
    Talk about a “wake up call.” True story of
    what’s ahead for those that refuse to “wake up.”
    Stock Number: ISBN: 0-8007-8412-X

    Please – search for the real truth with your whole heart. Time is short and eternity is forever.

  26. Greg,

    the following is just to help you along with the issue of whether Mary was with or without sin.

    Anyone who HAS SINNED is in need of the Savior…anyone who has NOT SINNED, does not need the Savior.

    According to Romans 3:23 (KJV) “For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God”.

    Luke 1:46-47 (KJV) “And Mary said, My soul does magnifiy the Lord, And my spirit has rejoiced in God my Savior”.

    In the above verse Mary is refering to her Savior. The questions are:

    -Why is Mary claiming a savior?
    -What does she need saving from?

    If Mary was without sin, she would not need a savior and therefore would not be addressing God as her Savior.

    I hope this helps

    God bless

  27. Thanks Matthew.

    I appreciate your intention to help.

    Can you tell me why this argument is not convincing to the Catholic Church, who I believe have many scholars who have given it lots of thought over the centuries, and have used Scripture to come to a different conclusion?

    God Bless
    Greg

  28. Found a website that directly addresses the points you made:

    http://www.catholic.com/library/Immaculate_Conception_and_Assum.asp

    It explains why the Catholic position is not at odds with the scripture you quoted.

  29. Regarding the 1 Kings passages…

    Did anyone read the rest of the chapter? Solomon had Adonijah killed after his mother made this request…he wasn’t very happy about it at all.

    1Ki 2:22 King Solomon answered his mother, “Why do you request Abishag the Shunammite for Adonijah? You might as well request the kingdom for him–after all, he is my older brother–yes, for him and for Abiathar the priest and Joab son of Zeruiah!”

    1Ki 2:23 Then King Solomon swore by the Lord: “May God deal with me, be it ever so severely, if Adonijah does not pay with his life for this request!

    1Ki 2:24 And now, as surely as the Lord lives–he who has established me securely on the throne of my father David and has founded a dynasty for me as he promised–Adonijah shall be put to death today

    1Ki 2:25 So King Solomon gave orders to Benaiah son of Jehoiada, and he struck down Adonijah and he died.

    That’s kind of a bad example to use to connect it to Jesus doing whatever Mary tells him…


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